Empowering Leadership and Personal Growth Through Compassionate Action with Toni McLelland

Join us on the Everlasting Fulfillment Podcast for an enlightening conversation with Toni McLelland, a no-nonsense mentor with a knack for empowering others. Discover how Toni's journey from criminal justice to specialist education and social care has shaped her unique approach to leadership. We explore the "blameless model," a holistic framework that focuses on understanding individuals through behavior, learning, environment, network, and development. Toni's experiences as a chief executive and school principal reveal the significance of customizing strategies to address the specific needs of organizations, particularly within the third sector.

Our episode also delves into personal growth through adversity, illustrated by a compelling story about learning to drive. The excitement of receiving a company car without knowing how to drive becomes a metaphor for perseverance and skill acquisition. We discuss how stepping out of comfort zones and embracing challenges can lead to profound personal and professional development. This journey informs our coaching philosophy, which prioritizes gradual progress and active client engagement to foster self-sufficiency and resilience.

In our final segment, we reflect on the lasting influence of a compassionate father figure, whose selflessness extended beyond family to enrich the lives of friends and the community. This narrative underscores the power of compassionate leadership, which not only fosters a supportive environment but also drives organizational efficiency. Toni's career insights highlight the importance of empathy and positive action, encouraging listeners to consider the impact of their actions and to empower others. Tune in for an episode brimming with lessons in empathy, leadership, and legacy that promise to inspire meaningful change in both personal and professional realms.

Sponsored by Nico Van de Venne CommV

Chapters

• 0:00 Empowering Through Critical Friendship
• 15:38 Lessons Learned Through Adversity
• 29:07 Lessons of Compassion and Legacy
• 35:17 The Power of Compassionate Leadership

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

You don't become powerful by holding on to power. You become more powerful by empowering others, by giving it away to empower others. Then they go and do what they're doing and then more comes back to you. You give more, more comes back to you, and as you rise, they come.

Speaker 2: 0:30

Let me invite you to sit back, drop your jaw, tongue and shoulders, take a deep breath and, if you wish, close your eyes for a moment and feel the beat within. In a few seconds, you just jumped from your head to your heart and felt the beat within opening up to receive even more value and fulfillment out of your business and life. And today's episode. I'm your host, nico van de Venne. Confidant to successful CEOs, founders and entrepreneurs who are striving to achieve everlastingness. Welcome to the Everlasting Fulfillment Podcast with our next guest, tony McCleland. Tony is a straight-talking business mentor, specializing in business for third sector and social cases. As a troubleshooting business turnaround specialist, tony assists boards and C-suite in building, navigating crises and embed change. Tony, welcome to the podcast. I've been looking forward to our conversation.

Speaker 1: 1:33

Thank you so much for having me Nikon. It's a real pleasure to be here.

Speaker 2: 1:39

I see on the screen you put down critical friend. Tell us about who you are as a critical friend, because I think that's indeed something that and sticking well, I'm not that, that critical friend.

Speaker 1: 1:51

What is a critical friend? First of all, I think, um, you know, I put it down people don't search for critical friends. So I'm always good, you know, if you do, I'm always gonna kind of be there. But ultimately it's that friend in business. You know, that's really going to have your back, tell you as it is while they're stroking you at the same time make sure that you're okay. So they're going to tell you all of these things and that you need to know and be really compassionate about it, but also take you by the hand and help you through. So I'll help you to navigate. And you know, one of the things about me is I try to really get to know my clients as well as I can. You know their temperaments and all their kinds of behaviors so that I know how to deliver on things and how to tap into key communication that that can be received well. So you know, yeah, critical friend, critical person that you need in your business that will tell you as it is but also help you to navigate through okay, that's a.

Speaker 2: 3:01

That's a very interesting step because there's indeed a lot of entrepreneurs or C-levels or whomever that might need that nice little slap on the back, sometimes with a pat on the head.

Speaker 1: 3:18

A little nudge maybe.

Speaker 2: 3:20

Yeah, so how did you get to this point where you are right now? What's your history?

Speaker 1: 3:26

Well, I've got a varied history actually. I started off in criminal justice, went into specialist education and care, but in those organizations I was really leading business and so I'm really kind of looking at things from the business end, you know Sorry, just excuse me one second yes, I was really kind of leading things from the business end and leading teams as well, as you know, the business growth. So ultimately, that was really, really, really it was key to be able to understand things, like you know, understanding finances, growth, all of those types of all of those types of things. So it was really important to be able to understand those, those areas, yeah. But, um, in criminal justice, I really took an interest in understanding behavior, yeah, and and really took some time to understand what that meant in understanding behavior with other people. And then I went into criminal and specialist education because I wanted to understand how people learn. So the behavior was innate, taught, learned, habitual, and I don't think that we understand enough of it. The learning was kinesthetic, audio and visual, and so I put the two together because if you want to change behavior, you need to unlearn and relearn, and that's the way to do it wanting to understand that. So while I was. I was actually a principal in special needs education um provisions and what that actually meant was I was that teacher. I was the one that was saying to the teachers look, you know, we need to explore behavior a little bit more because otherwise little Johnny's going to be a detention forevermore. You know, really try to understand these people.

Speaker 1: 5:33

Then I created a model around behavior and learning, went into organizations to help them with their culture, and sometimes it worked, and other times there are times when it didn't quite work, and that was because it needs to be bespoke to the environment, and you know, I was always trying to figure things out and fix them as they went. And so ultimately, what I then went to do is I went in social care and I was, you know, overseeing um, responsible individuals and registered managers, because I was really interested how environments have an impact on young people, so young people in children's homes, for example. So then I started to create this model, which was around behavior, learning, the environment. So it's the blameless model that I've actually got. And then the last two were network and development, which came later on through my own experience, and so what it meant was that I kind of done a 360 on an individual. So this is what it looks like if they're looked after as an individual. This is what they look like in the criminal justice system, this is what they look like in education and what that experience holistically look like. And you know, I kind of developed the whole concept in relation to we are just older, young people, you know. So it's important to get that holistic view, that comprehensive 360 view when you're working with an individual, and that's really how I get results.

Speaker 1: 7:09

So that's my background. I've been a chief exec of a social care organization, I've been a school principal of special needs, so typically, you know, my clients are these areas, because that's where I've led. But I also have that understanding of people and the more I understand people, the easier it becomes, you know. So what I do now is I package all of that experience up and I hand it to people, you know, to help them with startup, scale-up and change and growth in these business, these types of business, social causes, so anything that's leading around people and sustainability, or people in the environment. So it could be, you know, the National Health Service, the local police service, metropolitan Police, prison Service, et cetera. Those types of organizations are working with vulnerable individuals because of the safeguard and etc. So that's really my specialist area in terms of supporting those, and it's a bit of a long-winded story, but I just needed to take you through a little bit so that there was a bit of understanding there no, no, it's very interesting because I work with a lot of entrepreneurs and c-levels.

Speaker 2: 8:32

You know, in general business, not specifically any social related or anything like that. So if I, if I listen to your story, I can imagine that you also meet people that might be categorized, or put a stamp on them, called iAchievers, as you are yourself, because you strive to improve yourself. So what do you mainly see them as a trend from your experience?

Speaker 1: 9:17

Well, the thing is, is that, first of all, what I say to anybody that's a coach or a consultant or anything like that working with others, you know it's really looking to get results. We need to look at the equity piece as well, in terms of different people need different things to get there on their journey. So ultimately, I tend to see lots of consultants that offer this is my offer, this is how it's going to go. The people don't fit into the way that they shape their offer. Then you're stubborn, you don't listen, you're difficult to work with all of these things and you're not a good client. So it's almost you know.

Speaker 1: 9:57

But I do it the other way. I do it that you know. Actually I want it to be bespoke to you because I want it to work, you know. I want to know if there's a behavior that needs unpicking, you know. I want to know how you engage in learning. I want to be able to recognize when I'm talking, when your eyes are lighting up or something is is really, you know, getting you excited, did you sort of mean? So you really need to tailor things accordingly, and I think that that is really part of that um, that secret plus, of course I have fairy dust, which will, I'm sure we'll come on to later on, but but that's really what the secret is. It's the spoke to the individual, isn't it? Because some are neurodiverse, others may, may be autistic, you know. So I mean, some have disability. So ultimately we have to kind of think, be a little bit more open-minded.

Speaker 2: 11:06

Would you describe that as a real want as well? Is it something that they inherently want to have a more bespoke approach?

Speaker 1: 11:19

I think so. I mean, I was speaking to a client who's neurodiverse yesterday and we were talking about a program and work that we're going to be doing together. I've been working with them for probably a couple of years now and you know, we kind of got to the money bit and it was like you know everybody for reasons, where we get to the money bit in terms of how they're going to be, you know, tracking their payments and the bookkeeping side of the finance bit in terms of how they're going to be, you know, tracking their payments and the bookkeeping side of the finance and those, those types of things. So so everybody's like, oh well, I haven't done this before, but but I say to them well, look, when the money starts coming in, you'll start enjoying it. You know you'll start enjoying putting the figures in, but I know that this particular person may still may not, and I said don't worry about it, what we'll do is we'll do these are all the things that me doing.

Speaker 1: 12:11

As we go through the program, which is over the course of the year, we'll get to know the bits that you like and the bits that you don't like, because you're not going to like everything you're not going to be good at anything, but you need to know about the money side and ultimately, if you try it and it's not for you, then we can see how we can outsource that piece, so don't worry so. So she was kind of really appreciative in the fact, in the sense that I wasn't saying to her this is how the program has to go and you have to do a, b, c, d, e, f and g. I was saying that the program involves a, b, c, d, c, d, e, f and G. However, if you don't like C, it's good for you to understand it and we can outsource it. So you can stay working on the bits that are good for you, that fill your soul, that you're really good at, that align with your own purpose, which I think is really important.

Speaker 2: 13:08

Would you actually call that your fairy dust, or would your fairy dust be something else as well?

Speaker 1: 13:18

Do you know what, mika? I'm going to be really cheeky and say to you that my fairy dust is not to be described, it's to be experienced, okay, and it comes in all forms. It can be that personalization, it can be the fact that the sprinting of fairy dust means that I make it really enjoyable. So what we're doing, it's really enjoyable. I think it's really important that when we're living our purpose and we're sitting in that space, that we're enjoying what we're really doing, we don't feel that we're doing it just to be able to pay the bills or because we have to. It's actually. If you're living in your purpose, then it comes naturally. It comes naturally. You're being yourself, you're doing what you would naturally gravitate to and you're putting your business around that. So that's kind of how my fairy dust works. It's about an enjoyable journey and sometimes you don't even realize that you've gone through all that hard shit because it's so enjoyable and your purpose.

Speaker 2: 14:39

The way you make it sound is like it's just a beautiful journey, going through the forest and enjoying the trees and you're hiding some roots that you fall over on.

Speaker 1: 14:49

But you get to just get up again and for nicole, if you were a chief exec I was working with and we was having a difficulty, or you know, um, we might have a conversation. I might say you know, um, you know you've got to walk to the bottom of the road and it's like, well, why do I need to do that? Why am I doing that? What's the purpose? What's the reason behind that? How long is it gonna take? What's that gonna prove that? All of that? It's like, okay, come on, let's talk about it. But we're walking and talking about it, but before you've even realized you've had the answer to it, you're at the end of the road. That's what it's about. Do you sort of mean that you're taking the pain out of it?

Speaker 1: 15:38

I remember and I use this example because it kind of may describe what I'm talking about I remember when I was working with an international company and they gave me a car, a company car. I was so excited about this company car, but I couldn't drive. I was their top person. I was in their magazine every week and on their internet every week about how fantastic I was doing. And there was this thing and she doesn't even drown, because imagine if she was driving, we're gonna get her this car anyway. So this car was sitting there in this warehouse gathering dust and I decided to take my lessons. And after my first driving lesson I said to the instructor because I remember I'm in a rush now how did I do? It Could have been better, okay. And I thought, oh my gosh, this is going to be such a long way that I've got to go.

Speaker 1: 16:33

But anyway, I still remember the point, the different phases. We went through the first phase where I was driving and he was using his pedals. I was driving and he was using his pedals. I was driving, he wasn't using the pedals, but he was still there. And then I was driving on my own. In fact we could even start before that, yeah, and say that he was driving first. So there's a different stages that you go through.

Speaker 1: 17:05

And I remember that last stage of one day I said to him how did we do? And he said you've done amazing. Did you know that I didn't use my pedals once today? And so I measured from the time. He said it could have been better to.

Speaker 1: 17:22

I didn't use my pedals today, and that feeling was that I've had because I didn't realize. And so I kind of tried to replicate that feeling with my clients that I'm working with, that feeling that I had when, wow, I've done it all by myself, I actually done this, you know. So I always kind of transport myself back to that moment and think you know about how I felt. And, um, use that example because I'm in the driving seat initially and then you are. So sometimes you know I say, right, okay, I'm not that kind of consultant that sits on the drinks team, just gives advice, I will help you to do some aspects of it. So, you know, you start off drinking the coffee and I'm the one that's breaking my nails. And then what happens is I'm drinking the coffee and you're breaking your nails and you won't even realize that that transition has taken place.

Speaker 2: 18:38

That's a nice approach. That's a very nice approach actually, because you're actually you're setting the example on how it should be done.

Speaker 1: 18:47

And then finally, yeah, come on, I'm coming with you. And then, while you're marching, I'm getting slower and slower and dropping back and you're on your way and that's. But that's how it's done. You know whether you're coaching or whether you're consulting. You know, consulting is slightly different, but if you're coaching, that's, you know. I think it's important.

Speaker 1: 19:10

I always used to sit in the background and push people forward, but then somebody once said to me well, actually, tony, we want to hear from you. Sometimes. You're always good at pushing people forward. You push us all forward. I want to hear from you. And I thought, fair point, you know. So I just started yeah, I just started speaking a little bit more and giving a little bit more, so that, and even pushing through my own discomfort Because people were watching me, I am that person that, even in adversity, I'm that leader. I'm still going for it. I've been in an organization that was going through a change process and it was tricky. It was tricky moving forward and I could have opted out at that point, but I stayed for the people. But the journey ahead wasn't easy and I didn't know what was going to come. But I said that if I stay where I am, how will I go through that experience? How will I know, how will I feel what that feels like? So I had to do it, so I put my arm up.

Speaker 2: 20:47

It's kind of like writing the bullet, isn't it? It's kind of like writing the bullet.

Speaker 1: 20:52

Sacrificing myself, you know, but it's like you know, so I put on my armor. I rallied up some troops around me, some people that I know that really got my back and understand the mission ahead. You know. Yeah, just get ready. Make sure that your hair looks nice and you got the right shoes on you know, and that they are color coordinated, because that's important to use absolutely.

Speaker 1: 21:25

and, as my husband would say, you know you get your priorities right and that's all that you can do and put your best foot forward. So you put your best shoes on and you put your best foot forward and, knowing that you're prepared as much as you can, you know, yeah there's always. Yeah, I didn't come out with wounds as I thought I would A couple of scratches, a couple of grazes but you know what I learned? A hell of a lot scratching a couple of grazes.

Speaker 2: 21:55

But you know what I learned? A hell of a lot. Those are the most you know inspiring, uh, education and comes out. You know, really getting down and doing the nitty-gritty uh the last point and then coming out of the others, the other side, realizing that, how beautiful the gift was that you've just gone through, even if it was a big struggle.

Speaker 1: 22:12

Absolutely. But people say to me, would you do it again? And I say hell, no, but I have learned a lot. Someone said to me, share a regret? And I sat with it for a minute and I just thought I don't have any regret, I only have learning experiences. Because even that, what I described, I don't even see that as a regret, because I learned so much. And how would I know, how can I take my clients through that if I don't know?

Speaker 2: 22:48

yeah, I get what you mean.

Speaker 2: 22:50

I've had an experience like that in the past as well and of course, at the time you're not, you know, jumping around and looking through rose, roses as we say, uh, you're seeing the world in a bit different way, where where you're, you know, in the pain.

Speaker 2: 23:06

But after I think I I was with that company for like four months and I spent a lot of hours getting the business running, spent a lot of energy in there, thought it was going to go really well. I was going to, you know, rise up into that, but then at some point they just, you know, kicked me out of the door because they said, you know, we got a contract with a big company and you've done all the lead work, so now we can go ahead and do it on our own. And kind of smack in my face, honestly, but years after not even years, I think about a couple of months after I was so happy that that had happened, because in those four months I learned so much that it was a big gift and now it's in my backpack for the rest of my life and you just, you know, you've been there, you've gone through the struggle and somebody tells you about it. It's like yeah, it is a gift, not everybody looks.

Speaker 1: 24:02

But it is absolutely and you know so. So you know, just from that perspective, you know, even when we were going through the pandemic, it's like you're going through change, you're working with leaders, and there's this thing where ego kicks in and people are you know, they're saying that it's okay. I was the one that was saying it's okay to say you don't know, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't have to know everything. You, you know they will look to you and if you don't know, you don't know, you could say well, actually, I will find out and let you know. Or as soon as I know, I and let you know. Or as soon as I know, I will let you know. There is truth in that, rather than the kind, because it's all built on trust. Like those people that came into that scenario with me, they trusted me to lead and have their back, and they have mine. If they didn't have my back or I didn't have theirs, it would have been a very different story yeah, indeed yes.

Speaker 2: 25:18

one thing that I've learned as well is you know just when in a full-blown meeting, when everything has to go as quickly as possible and blah, blah, you don't know, it's better to actually say hold on, guys. I need to find out about this before we actually continue, because if you don't, you're kind of messing with whatever might come out of that meeting and wrong decisions might be made, which can have a lot more big impact than just saying I'm going to swear.

Speaker 1: 25:46

You know, sometimes people in leadership you know they don't really understand leadership because they make decisions for the sake of making those decisions, you know, and they're absolutely terrible. And sometimes you know me as a consultant, I'm kind of going in and maybe tidying things up. So I'm always that one that is like look, before you put it out there, just be clear, or say we will update you as we go. You don't have to be 100% on everything, but just let people know that it's likely or it's not likely. One communicate with people, but two people that are in these positions, they feel that they need to know everything and they make decisions. And one of the things that I say is that the leaders that know everything are the ones with the most learning to do. I like that, but it's true, it's absolutely true.

Speaker 1: 26:48

I've been in my space for over 30 years. Actually, it's probably about 35 now. I've been saying 30 years for the last five years, so it's probably about 35 now, but I don't know everything. Yeah, and I never will. I never will know everything, but what I do know is that I'm 35 years ahead of those that don't know anything. I'm 35 years down the journey, but you know so. Legislation is always changing, the world is always changing. You've got to keep up to date with things. How can you ever know everything?

Speaker 2: 27:32

well it's, it's the unknowing that sometimes can feed you as well, because otherwise, if you would know everything, what's the point of even getting to know stuff?

Speaker 1: 27:45

David Elikwu Well, there's a, there's, there's a quote. I can't remember exactly, but it's around. You know, there are things that you know and there are things that you don't know. And then there are things that you don't know, that you don't know, and it's that bit the things that you don't know, that you don't know yeah, absolutely, and yeah, there's indeed those four stages in there.

Speaker 2: 28:13

Then at some point it's just you know great it's, it's. There's no difference, there's nothing there, and otherwise, then you just you know it's a part of you. It's as simple as that. Yeah. So, tony, what's from your point, or from within you yourself, what is your greatest desire at this point?

Speaker 1: 28:36

My greatest desire it might be. You know, my greatest desire me personally, is gonna be, I think I think I would just kind of say that that my dad was a very special man to me and you know I feel like I'm continuing his legacy. So that is really important to me to continue that legacy, and actually it's coming very naturally and um. So, apart from it being a business kind of piece, it it's also very personal, because when I ask clients these kind of questions, they always talk about business, business, business, business. So I'm trying to, you know, allude to business, but it's the personal, personal legacy.

Speaker 2: 29:43

When you talk about that legacy, what, what can I imagine? What was your dad's legacy that you're trying to move on?

Speaker 1: 29:50

well, um, my dad was a very wise man and he gave lots of advice. So if you could try and think about an older person, not necessarily in a rocking chair, but you know, even my friend used to go, used to go to him for advice. Well, even now, you know, even now they go to my mom and and I'm not even there, it's like, oh, I'll pick up the phone to call my mom, and it's like a man answers the mom like who's that? And it's one of my school friends. Do you understand what I mean?

Speaker 1: 30:23

Honestly, honestly, my dad, he was a really good man. He never done anything wrong. You know he was law abiding. You know he smoked cigarettes, which was about as bad as it got. You know he'd have the odd beer occasionally. Other than that, he just didn't do anything wrong. He, you know he would make sure that he took. Well, he had a thing where he'd say that we all needed to make sure that we could ride the bicycle, swim and drive, and that was his mission, that all of us should be able to do that. So that was his thing. And then, when we all done that, he would make sure that our children were able to do that. So on a Sunday he would take them swimming, or you see this convoy of bicycles going off into the, you know. So they're going to the park or whatever it is for the day. So that was his kind of thing. But he was really good in the sense of um, he was cool. Lots of my friends wanted him as a dad. So when we had time off at school, you know, we would have little parties at my house but my dad would come in and but my friends would be there and he'd be cool. She said me he was kind of like he was really cool with that and um, he gave lots of advice.

Speaker 1: 31:51

And when he he had a terminal illness, when he it came. That time, you know, I remember we spent some really good quality time because it was like, well, look, there's no point in being angry about this situation now let's try to build these, these positive memories. And so we had some really good, and at one time I said to him what is it that you want? And he said, well, well, um, you know, I just, I just want to know that you're all right, that everybody's all right, and then I will be all right, all right, that everybody's all right and then I will be all right, and so that kind of resonate with me because there he was, a selfless with this terminal illness and still thinking about others.

Speaker 1: 32:37

There was not one bit of it in there. That was for him, you know, and I thought now that's really commendable. So when he passed and it was his funeral, everybody was there and they all came on the microphone, were talking about how he brought their family together, how he gave him great advice, how this and how that, and I didn't even know someone I was like and how are you and how are you, and I didn't know all these people. So these were the things that come behind the scenes that I didn't know about. But actually you know all these lessons that he was teaching me before. Some of them don't make sense until now yeah do you see what I mean?

Speaker 1: 33:21

so even now, some of the things that he says, I will go back and go, go and say, well, actually, what would he say? And sometimes I'll even share things with my clients that he would say to guide, and so I feel that he had a really good spirit and, um, that whole piece around compassion for others. But if you're all right and everybody's all right, then I will be all right, and so that's kind of like a little bit of a mantra that's indeed a very, that's a beautiful legacy.

Speaker 2: 33:56

Um. So in in, in essence, you know, relating to legacy, what would be your advice today for people that are listening and they're struggling or trying to find a way to feeling more fulfilled or more achieved, or whatever it might be? What would you advise people today, especially?

Speaker 1: 34:20

If they were leading an organization. Is that the context you're asking me? Well, I think that because I've done a talk yesterday and one of the things that I talked to was the fact that people are so focused on themselves and, yes, it's important to to be aware of yourself and do the right thing for yourself but they're very detached from the impact on others. So you want something, you're going to get that thing and actually have you considered the impact on others by getting that thing? Yeah, and because this particular organization where I was speaking, it was kind of I've seen a lot of that kind of culture, so it was kind of geared in that way. So it's really about just being a bit more open-minded and really thinking in that way, being a little bit more compassionate.

Speaker 1: 35:17

But one of the things I would say is that in my career well, I shouldn't really call it a career, I call it research really but over the years, compassion has been key and it's always been a winner. And that compassion has been around the fact that when I've been criminal justice and working with young people in the criminal justice system, it kept me safe when I was working in communities and looking at critical incidents and things like that and and liaising with the communities. You know it brought calm and resolve. When I was leading log, when I was leading large organizations yeah, up to 700 plus staff you know it brought efficiency and effectiveness. So I found that, regardless of what you're doing, if you put some compassion in there, you could be on to a winner. Yeah, so you could be on to a winner.

Speaker 1: 36:32

Yeah, so it's true. So that, because that's what's followed me, I looked what was this common theme and it was, if I follow the theme of compassion. So now I do lots of work around compassionate organizations and compassionate leadership, you know, to cut future proof and accelerate your business around compassion. What is compassion? It's to really, you know, just be thinking about, about the, the people and planets agendas, the compassionate organizational business as well. That is thinking about, um, taking positive action for the people and the planet, showing consideration for people in the climate which we all have a very wide thing at some point.

Speaker 2: 37:13

Yeah, it's not something that you, it's something very wide.

Speaker 1: 37:18

Compassion can be something on different levels, not only towards people, but but also towards what's outside or environment, showing consideration, because, if you think about it, compassion the word compassion is about taking action. It's not empathy, it's not sympathy, it's not pity, it's taking action, is taking action. So you're taking positive action while being considerate for people, taking positive action for the planet and the environment, and those are the leading agendas moving forward, and I found that it starts off with compassionate leadership. However, you can't be as effective in your compassionate leadership if you're not in an organization that supports that with their mission, vision and values yeah you'll probably be yeah, you're probably the only one and, and you know, fighting, fighting to against other things that are not there.

Speaker 1: 38:17

Yeah, absolutely so. So if you've got a compassionate organization, that's that's that way and it's of their values or their mission vision, and you're coming in with that compassionate leadership, then you're more likely to you know. So this is where I have Compassion at Sea, and they are about coaching, they're about community, because you can't do it on your own. About communication, which we talked about effective communication, timely, as well as effective Consultation, co-creation and co-production and the consultation pieces. You know we think about the 60% of people that answer the consultation or a survey or whatever it is.

Speaker 1: 39:08

You know they're 60 that answered, but we forget about the 40 that didn't yeah this, and so we're going to build our strategy around the 60, but you still got 40 that I won't say anything.

Speaker 2: 39:22

So that's where my it goes only once where the, where the pains really, you know, come up yeah, that's that's.

Speaker 1: 39:28

That's that's right. They could. It could even be a little bit toxic in there, you don't know, but this is the bit that really impacts the culture. So people are need to make sure they're looking in the right places for the right thing. Yeah and uh, and that's kind of that's really really key, and all of those pieces together bring that connectedness. So that's the last c.

Speaker 2: 39:52

So that's amazing isn't it.

Speaker 1: 39:59

It's about, yeah, yeah, you know cause. So I saying, when you go as, as a leader, do you go into a meeting to impart knowledge or do you go into that meeting to learn something new?

Speaker 2: 40:15

I'd rather say, take the second one.

Speaker 1: 40:18

Well, you know, but not a lot of people do, Not a lot of leaders do they go into impart knowledge, sage on the stage as opposed to. Let me see what I can learn just by listening or asking some key questions or empowering a bit more. Because if you don't become powerful by holding on to power, you become more powerful by empowering others, by giving it away to empower others, Then they go and do what they're doing and then more comes back to you. You give more, more comes back to you and as you rise, they rise.

Speaker 2: 41:02

Beautiful, beautiful.

Speaker 1: 41:04

That's how that works.

Speaker 2: 41:07

Where can people you know contact you, because I think there's probably a couple of them that are triggered by what you were saying. How can people contact you? How can they reach out?

Speaker 1: 41:18

Well, I'm prolific on LinkedIn, so they can find me Fairy Dust and everything on LinkedIn. First, Life Group, that's the digit one. One S-T. Lifegroupcom is where you'll find all the information around everything that I'm doing around social causes, startup, scale up, growth and change, especially in social causes. You know. So that's my passion, that's where I've been, that's where I've led, that's what I know.

Speaker 2: 41:48

The regulation compliance safeguarding that's my thing so, yeah, listeners, you know where, where to go to hook up with tony, especially if you had a couple of things that might trigger you. Tony, I want to really thank you for your time today. It's been a very intriguing and inspiring conversation, as per usual, with you.

Speaker 1: 42:18

So, yeah, thank you very much. Thank you for having me. I think the main real trust of this is about if you want real results, Miko, try to get to understand people.

Speaker 2: 42:35

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 42:36

That's where the answer is yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:41

To the listeners. Thank you again for listening to this episode and getting a little bit of inspiration from both of us at some point. Have a good one everybody. Bye, bye.