Breaking Out of Life's Boxes with Betsy Pepine

What invisible boxes are constraining your potential? Bestselling author and award-winning real estate entrepreneur Betsy Pepine joins us to explore how expectations - from family, society, industry norms, and even ourselves - can confine us in ways we don't initially recognize.

Betsy shares her personal journey of discovering deep discontent despite outward success. "I didn't feel like I had the right to be unhappy," she reveals, describing how this realization led her through a transformative exploration using journaling, meditation, therapy, and other healing modalities. The common thread she discovered? Feeling confined by expectations that didn't align with her authentic self - like "an Amazon mattress compressed into a box, yet to be opened."

This awareness transformed not only her personal life but revolutionized her business approach. Breaking industry conventions, she created salaried positions in her real estate brokerage - an unheard-of model in a commission-driven industry. This outside-the-box thinking solved a critical problem, allowing talented individuals who couldn't weather the commission rollercoaster to thrive in real estate.

The conversation dives deep into the three fears that keep us confined: fear of failure, fear of change, and fear of loss. Betsy offers practical wisdom for addressing each, including her daily practice of intentional discomfort-seeking to strengthen her "change muscle," and her refreshing perspective on failure: "Dogs never wonder if they're going to fail at chasing a squirrel - this fear is entirely human-made."

Whether you're feeling trapped by industry expectations, cultural norms, or self-imposed limitations, this episode offers a roadmap for recognizing and dismantling the boxes that no longer serve you. As Betsy reminds us, "You can't get out of a box you don't know you're in."

Ready to break free? Visit https://betsypepine.com/ to connect with Betsy and discover her book "Breaking Boxes: Dismantling the Metaphorical Boxes that Bind Us."

http://www.pepinerealt

Sponsored by Nico Van de Venne CommV

Chapters

• 0:00 Episode Introduction and Guest Welcome
• 2:30 Writing a Bestseller About Life's Boxes
• 6:21 Cultural Boxes and Adapting in Business
• 8:13 Breaking Industry Norms with Salaried Agents
• 13:32 Creating Space for Authenticity in Business
• 19:14 Overcoming the Three Types of Fear
• 27:40 Next Steps and Connecting with Betsy

Transcript

Betsy: 0:00

I've got two dogs sitting beside me. They never, ever wonder if they're going to fail at something. You know they're going to go chase a squirrel today. They're not worried about if they're going to fail or not. They're not worried about if they're going to fail in their mother's eyes. They don't have that. This is all human based. Let me invite you to sit back.

Nico: 0:34

Drop your jaw, tongue and shoulders, take a deep breath and, if you wish, close your eyes for a moment, feel the beat In a few seconds. You just jumped from your head to your heart and felt the beat within opening up to receive even more value and fulfillment of your business and life. And today's episode. I'm your host, nico van de Venne, confidant to successful CEOs, founders and who are striving to achieve everlasting fulfillment. Before we dive into this day's episode, I have a small request. If you love this episode, or any episode that we've already recorded, please leave a five-star review and share it to at least one person that might be interested in the subject. Thank you for your support. In any case, and let's get started.

Nico: 1:17

First, I will introduce our next guest, betsy Pepin. Betsy is a best-selling author of Breaking Boxes Dismantling the Metaphorical Boxes that Bind Us. Her brokerage Realty has been named as a 5,000-inch fastest-growing private company in the US multiple times and has earned spots in the top 50 Florida companies to watch for their trend best lists. Additionally, the Wall Street Journal has consistently recognized Betsy's real estate as one of the top producing real estate companies. Wow, betsy, that's seriously a lot of things there that you're running and having fun with and enjoying your days with, I imagine.

Betsy: 2:10

Yes.

Nico: 2:11

So you're a bestselling author and I love the story that you wrote about how you came to writing that bestselling book. Basically, tell us how you got to that point.

Betsy: 2:30

Well, I'm 56 years old and I was several years ago, despite feeling like I had successful businesses and a great family, I felt discontent and it really took me about a year to even admit it to myself because I didn't feel like I had the right to be unhappy. You know, we see so much in this world and I'm very cognizant of the fact that I'm very privileged in so many ways, and so I just didn't. It was really difficult for me to even admit it to myself and so I just didn't. It was really difficult for me to even admit it to myself. But after I did, I went on a journey of exploration to figure out what the source of discontentment was. And you know, I did journaling, meditation, yoga, therapy, emdr work, bioenergetic work, a whole host of different modalities to figure out what this, what was the underlying source of discontentment. And what I found was that the common thread was these times and periods in my life where I felt confined. Confined by expectations of my family, of origin, of society, of my industry, of my religion, of my gender, even expectations of myself. So it's not just the external forces at work and feeling like I don't know if you have. Do you have Amazon in Belgium. Oh yeah, okay.

Betsy: 4:02

So if you've ever had the misfortune of purchasing a bed mattress from Amazon, it arrived at your doorstep in a box and the first time I did that I thought, oh goodness, they sent me the wrong thing, how could this mattress be in this box?

Betsy: 4:17

And I lugged the box inside, put it in my living room, open it up and lo and behold, two days later the mattress has expanded to the size that it was designed to be and I felt like I was that mattress in that box, yet to be opened, and just not being able to be and live my true potential, because I felt weighted down by these expectations and standards that didn't feel in alignment with who I was born to be.

Betsy: 4:53

So I started journaling about those stories. I started talking to others about my stories and saw that this seems to be a universal issue and everyone's on the spectrum, and there was a lot of people who didn't know how to get out of boxes, and so I just I wrote the book in the hopes of helping just one person If one reader read the book, identified with a box that they may be in in their own lives and helping them have the courage and taking the steps to gracefully exit out of a box that no longer serve them, then the effort will have been worth it. So that's the genesis of the book.

Nico: 5:36

Okay, wow, it's a beautiful. I love the comparison with this book. I can see it lively, growing in a living room. Yeah, it is something very prevalent, I would say. There's a lot of people out there who, you know, have layers and layers and layers of masks on, and I see that you kind of describe it more as living in a box at living in a box Me and my partner as well.

Nico: 6:04

We've been. We discussed these things very, very clearly and a lot basically about how we grew up in a certain environment, and not only with our parents, but also friends and just a culture. Where I live I've mentioned this before in the podcast where my country, so I live in the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium, you have two, three languages basically, but the Dutch-speaking one, and we've been conquered by so many parties. So we've been conquered by Holland, by France, napoleon and all those different influences which makes that our, our. The people here are very how do you say, we adapt, we adapt in silence and we complain amongst ourselves, but we won't, you know, stand up and make and make an effort in changing things. Um, very drastically, we do it under the radar. Very drastically, we do it under the radar.

Nico: 7:05

So sometimes as a business owner, when you talk to somebody, you have to know all these different layers that are underneath of what they want to actually achieve. They might not even tell you until they start to trust you. And all those layers you break through the boxes. I would say, in comparison to what you're saying. And it's so funny sometimes that when I talk to people from abroad and I really mean like you guys from America or people from the UK or Australians, there's a complete different way of looking at things. You don't like something, you do something about it. That's basically what, what kind of happens. And I think in business, like an entrepreneur, you need to switch so quickly sometimes with with your business, because you know you you have to adapt and that's breaking through a lot of barriers um in the world so what's your?

Nico: 8:03

experience as a, as a real real estate expert on these things. Do you counter that as well in your business?

Betsy: 8:10

Yeah, absolutely Every day. As an entrepreneur, I mean even in. So in real estate, I have one of my businesses is a brokerage, and you know the model is that you have agents that work for you and not for you under you, because you can't work, you have to be under a broker. So I'm a broker and I have agents that work under my brokerage, and 99.9% of them are independent contractors, and so they get a commission, and when they sell something, they get a commission for selling a house. That's how the model works in our country.

Betsy: 8:50

Well, what I realized I've been in real estate for 20 years what I saw when I would interview candidates who wanted to get into real estate there's a segment of the population that can't do that. They can't go from a salaried position with benefits to a commission-based industry, and if they could, it would have to be over a long period of time. And what I found when we tried, that a lot of times it doesn't work, because real estate it is difficult. It's easy to get a license, but it's work to make it a living, and so sometimes it's too easy to go back to that primary source of income. So what I saw was a lot of people not making it. That could be great in real estate if they could stomach the commissions. You know, at the beginning, the first couple of years, it's a little bit, you know, like a roller coaster. So we created a salaried agent position, clearly outside the box of thinking in our industry, but it solved the problem of people who couldn't do that on their own and it's a beautiful model and it serves just a niche of people, great people that you saw, great potential. Now they can thrive because you've created a solution to their problem. So that's been great and clearly definitely outside the box. And a lot of people think, oh, it's crazy, you're salaring them. They might not sell anything, but if you know what you're looking for and you can recognize talent, it's a pretty safe bet. So that's one example Gender we come across gender in our industry and as an entrepreneur, a female entrepreneur, you know even little things like we'll have owners call and they'll only want and it doesn't.

Betsy: 10:53

I've never had somebody say I only want a male realtor. But I have had and it's not like every day, but it's not uncommon for an owner to say day, but it's not uncommon for an owner to say I'm requesting a female realtor and the reason they give me is they feel and I don't know why that they are better at selling a house. They understand the need of the house, the role that a home plays in the family system, so they want a female realtor. So that was interesting to me in the industry. I don't really like that. I mean, I've got great male realtors in our brokerage so I don't agree with that. But if their you know owners only do this a couple of times in their life and if they've had a bad or a good experience once or twice, then that can set their opinion.

Betsy: 11:53

I see, you know, we sell hundreds of houses a year. So I see that that is not true in the larger population. But if you have a one-off maybe that's true. So I see it there. I see it as an entrepreneur where I have been given, you know positions. I remember vividly being invited to be on a bank board, which is something I really wanted to do and have that experience. And after I accepted I was blatantly told I was given the position because I was a female and the board consisted of. I understand the pros and cons, but I think they didn't understand what an insult that was to me because I worked so hard to build these companies, but I wasn't being given this position because of that. I was given this position because of something I had no control over.

Betsy: 12:49

So, yes, I see it all the time, every day, and I think once people are aware of the boxes I mean they're just everywhere and to be aware means that you recognize there's choices. You know, I think, like the example with the agent, it's a lot of agents and brokers never considered that option of a salaried agent, so they didn't even know they were in a box because they didn't think about well, wait a minute, are there other choices here that we could explore? So I think that's one reason why some people stay in boxes is they don't even know they're in a box and you can't get out of a box. You're not aware that you're in boxes is they don't even know they're in a box and you can't get out of a box. You're not aware that you're in, yeah, yeah. So that step one is creating awareness that you might be in a box that's not serving yeah, it's one of those things where one fish tells another how?

Nico: 13:50

yes, and once you start realizing that you're actually in, you know for us then in a bubble of air that's only like a layer thick, protecting us from an immense, vast environment of vacuum. Right, you just you know, start realizing wow, okay, there's something going on here that I need to look into.

Nico: 14:10

I find the idea of what you did with giving them salary, especially the nuance of what are you looking for. You know there's a whole discussion going on for years about universal income and I've noticed that when I started my business, I started it really smack one month before COVID hit the world. And so you know, full agenda, empty agenda. I'm still around, so I must have done something right. But the thing is, what I've noticed was that there was a lot of people who had these ambitions to start their business out of an idea or an ideal of helping others. But, of course, one of the biggest struggles they find is, you know, getting that basic income just to put bread on the table, basically, and take care of their family. And I find indeed a difference where you're actually working with people that you know they're going to achieve what they want, because the drive is so high and the passion is there that there is a way to confirm that that income is something that you need to give to them. It's a beautiful breakthrough. I find that very interesting.

Nico: 15:25

So what was the actual effect that you had once the first person, for instance, got that offer from you? What was their first impression. What were the experiences? Oh, for instance, got that offer from you, what was their first impression? What would you experience?

Betsy: 15:37

Oh, I mean even now. I mean they're elated because it's just rather unheard of in our industry and they'll say I didn't even know that was an option. Absolutely, we want to create options for everybody. We want to create options for everybody. And then we have, on the other end of the spectrum, if you get to the end of your career and you want to take it easy, but independent agent still collect a referral fee and then they give us their referrals. So we really try to solve the problem, not the problem, but the gap with either agents or our buyers and our sellers, um, with either agents or our buyers and our sellers.

Nico: 16:36

So in your experience I want to jump into something else the. You know the, the path you took towards the book and the first steps of awareness. What were, at that time, the impacts that you were making because of? You know, you're being unhappy, basically finding out that you're actually not supposed to be unhappy because you're privileged, but you are a business owner. At that point, what happened to your business once you started realizing that this was an issue?

Betsy: 17:15

I think my I'm trying to. You know this has been a while, so it's hard for me to go back. I hope that the culture in my business and I believe it has become more authentic and people feel safer in expressing their emotions, feelings, discontentment, and that we created space for that, so that they're happier. That is my hope. That is my hope. I've also brought in people in the organization to help me have more free time to focus on things that are truly my unique ability and where I want to go in my future, and to remove the things that I shouldn't't start like I shouldn't be doing. I don't. They're not my unique ability, I don't enjoy them. They bring me down, but there's other people in this world that they wake up every day wanting to do that. So I've added people to the organization, so people are in the you know, on the right bus, in the right seats, working in their unique ability, which I think makes everybody happier and thus more successful.

Nico: 18:39

That's nice to hear, because what I focus on is founder syndrome and CEO disease, and one of those symptoms, or what I put towards those, is becoming micromanager, in essence, to a point where you're actually pushing your people so hard towards what you yourself as a founder or a CEO want and reducing the possibility to be opinionated or feedback. You know, 360 degree feedback is something that I've always loved in career I've had it with my managers, I've had it with people that I that work with me.

Nico: 19:20

You know I want to, I want to know when something's wrong. So that's always beautiful to hear that you've come to that point where where, as an owner, you know okay, tell me what's going on so I can fix it, so we can, you know, optimize the world that we live in yeah everybody that's there um in your environment. Do you see other founders or c-levels or whomever um that at this point you think, wow, they really need to. You know, they need to wake up call.

Betsy: 19:53

You know, I'm very intentional about who I surround myself with, and so I don't know, because I don't surround myself with those people. I have a group that I live in Florida. I fly to Chicago every quarter and I surround myself with people who have the mindset that I have and also my future self. So I don't know, I don't know what those people do. Well, that's good news.

Nico: 20:19

Honestly, that's good news, because then, indeed, you're really in an environment that you know it vibes with you and you can grow from there, because I see a lot of business owners that are still struggling with the environment that they're in. And coming back to what you're saying about the boxes, to me it's kind of reflection.

Nico: 20:37

it's kind of a reflection of the fact that there's they themselves are still in that box, being maybe affected by micromanaging, being a little bit on the route on the on the on the rough side in leadership as they call it sometimes, but if you're kind of you know, away from that environment, it does change you yourself very much, and I think that's something that a lot of business owners need to become aware of, of who they are in. Their business also affects everything and every step that their employees do towards their customers. Right, you know it's a kind of a chain reaction.

Betsy: 21:18

Oh, absolutely. I mean my customers are my agents and staff. They are not the buyer and seller of real estate. As long as I take care of my internal customers, we're fine yeah.

Nico: 21:28

Indeed, yeah, I remember a couple of things from I think it was the book Think and Grow Rich. I remember a couple of things from I think it was the book I think in grow rich. That was one of these examples of you know. I think it was a salesman, clothing salesman that they were. Just it was discussing one side. This was this guy really, you know, trying to sell every little piece of of clothing instead of asking questions to the customer what are you really here for and who are you and what's the effect, and so on.

Betsy: 21:56

Yeah.

Nico: 21:57

And then what I loved was indeed that store owner was the one who also asked their employees the same questions. Like who are you, what do you want to do, what do you want to achieve, and so on. And it's kind of you know that chat, like I said, it's a change of reaction.

Betsy: 22:15

Yes, absolutely.

Nico: 22:17

So is there any message or any specific thing that you want to throw out there to the listeners? Might help them.

Betsy: 22:29

Well, I think for me, when I was going through it and it's still a journey, I'm not, I haven't mastered, you know I'd find myself in boxes, yes, but for me I'm very. So. Now, when I feel resistance, or I feel that I might be in a box but I'm not exiting, I'm very intentional about figuring out why, and what's helped me is understanding. For me, there's usually three reasons either and it's fear-based, so either fear of failure, fear of the unknown or change, or fear of loss. And so I have worked on each of those. And so, for me, the first one is not I don't, it doesn't really impact my life anymore fear of failure. I have come to realize that failure is another box, and it's a box that we label some of our outcomes in. But we don't need to do that.

Betsy: 23:31

I've got two dogs sitting beside me. They never, ever wonder if they're going to fail at something. You know they're going to go chase a squirrel today. They're not worried about if they're going to fail or not. They're not worried about if they're going to fail in their mother's eyes, like they. They're not. They don't have that.

Betsy: 23:46

This is all human based. And I say to myself you know what is worst case scenario and worst case scenario something doesn't go like I wanted it to go, so I have to pivot. Okay, I can pivot it to go, so I have to pivot. Okay, I can pivot, and I get to take with me some lesson and learning and carry that with me for the rest of my life. That will help me later. That's worst case scenario. That's. That sounds okay, and studies have shown worst case scenario happens 3% of the time. Okay, so what are we worried about? I mean, it's crazy. So that one I really it doesn't bother me at all anymore, but I do think it does impact other people. But if they actually thought about it, they realize how almost silly it is.

Betsy: 24:37

So fear of failure, fear of change. We are humans, we are creatures of habit. I see it even in real estate where a family is moving because of a great thing a new birth, a job promotion still resistance, you know, because we don't like change. And so to me it's like a muscle, and the more I can expose myself to change the unexpected things that are uncomfortable, I get more comfortable being uncomfortable, if that makes sense. And so I do that on purpose. I have a habit tracker. I track habits every day and then I move those usually six to eight habits every, actually maybe 10 habits every month, and then the next month, if the habit has become ingrained, I drop that off and add a new one. But one of the habits that I track is have I exposed myself to something new or uncomfortable today? And it may be the cold shower I take every morning. That may be the only thing that's made me feel uncomfortable that day, but I do it every day because I wanna make sure I've put myself in a state of uncomfortableness at least once that day. So that, to me, is a muscle that we can work on.

Betsy: 25:48

And then the fear of loss. That's a real one, I mean, that's a real one that we have to address. And usually the loss is either a loss of, you know, status within our social community, loss of social connection, or financial loss. So the status one I just for me, I just that's. Ego, that's, let's say, your ego is getting in the way of what you want. Put your ego on the shelf, move forward. That's what I tell myself and that is very helpful to me.

Betsy: 26:17

The social connection one you are, you know, anytime you, it's like chess, once a piece is moved on the board. The game has changed. You are going to upset, offend, hurt people by your move. You just are Again. People don't like change. It threatens them. That's okay. Understand that, expect that and then shore up the relationships in your future vision. You know you're moving towards something, so you have new relationships that you can start shoring up, because you understand that some relationships are going to be released, and that is okay. There are necessary endings. Relationships, to me, teach us something about ourselves and some relationships we they outgrow. We've learned a lesson and we're ready to move on. No hurt feelings, it's okay, it's served its purpose. It's almost like pruning a bush you have to prune it back to grow. So that's how I address that one.

Betsy: 27:18

And then the fear of financial security generally roots its head when you're trying to shift careers and move into a box that you feel like is going to be serving you. I do feel like that one has. That has been reduced a bit with just time, because you know, 20 years ago, 25 years ago, when I got into real estate, we didn't have the gig economy. You couldn't drive for Uber and Amazon. You couldn't. Very few people, if any, were very few people, were working from home and, you know, just setting up shop online. I mean, we just have so many options now that we did not have before to supplement our primary income. So that one, I think, is one that's probably not as threatening to people's exits of boxes that no longer serve them. So that's kind of when you asked me what message would I have for the audience, it would just be to really understand. I write it down, like if I feel resistance, what am I resisting, and really breaking it down and seeing how I can tolerate that so that I can move forward.

Nico: 28:24

Yeah, I can imagine Well the problem that I have. I write it down first and you start reflecting on it and usually it's kind of you know, the problem itself has the solution in it.

Betsy: 28:40

Yeah, and I love writing it down. It makes things so less scary. I think when things are just in your head, they just take a life of its own. I see it's crazy when you write it down and you're like, okay, that's manageable. Yeah, indeed.

Nico: 28:55

No cool. Well, that's great, betsy. Thank you very much for those beautiful insights. So where can people you know connect with you, find you?

Betsy: 29:03

Sure. So I have a website, betsypapincom. I'm on all the social channels at my name Betsy Papin. The book is available on Amazon and in all major book retailers online. It's also available on my website. And then I do have a companion course coming out this spring and that will also be available on my website.

Nico: 29:25

Great, okay, super Well, I'll put your connections and links in the show notes. In any case, thank you. It's always easy for people to click right now and go from here to your website and check out.

Betsy: 29:38

Oh well, thank you very much for your time.

Nico: 29:40

Thank you very much for your time.

Betsy: 29:43

Thank you.

Nico: 29:44

And for our listeners. Thanks again for listening to the Everlasting and have a good one.