Do Less, Better: The Counter-Intuitive Path to Growth with Derek Fredrickson

Have you hit that frustrating plateau in your business where everything feels harder than it should? Derek Fredrickson from The COO Solution reveals the counterintuitive secret that unlocked growth for countless entrepreneurs: doing less, better.

This conversation tackles the entrepreneurial trap that keeps visionaries stuck - the belief that nobody can do things as well as you can. Derek shares wisdom from 17 years of helping business owners break through their glass ceilings by finding the right support at the right time. You'll discover the critical difference between what you could do versus what you should do, and learn a simple framework that instantly clarifies which tasks deserve your focus.

The discussion explores how support evolves as your business grows, from virtual assistants handling basic tasks to online business managers coordinating operations, and eventually to a trusted second-in-command who can truly run your business alongside you. Most importantly, Derek and Nico discuss the profound dual benefits of proper delegation: not just Return on Investment (ROI), but also "Fun on Investment" (FOI) - the renewed energy and passion you experience when focusing on your zone of genius.

For entrepreneurs feeling isolated or overwhelmed, this episode offers both practical strategies and emotional reassurance. Building the right team isn't just about growing your business - it's about reclaiming the joy and purpose that inspired you to become an entrepreneur in the first place.

Ready to break free from founder syndrome and scale your business without sacrificing your wellbeing? Take the next step by visiting thecoosolution.com to discover what level of support your business needs right now.

https://thecoosolution.com/

Sponsored by Nico Van de Venne CommV

Chapters

• 0:02 Breaking Through Entrepreneurial Plateaus
• 5:23 The Trap of Doing Everything Yourself
• 11:03 Building Your Support System
• 18:56 The Evolution of Business Support
• 23:03 Entrepreneurship's Lonely Journey
• 26:18 Finding Your Trusted Second-in-Command

Transcript

Derek: 0:00

In order for you to get to that next level, you actually have to do less better and really trust somebody that can come in and essentially run your business with you or, in some cases, run your business for you, because at that level you've got complexity, you've got a pretty sizable team, you've got a lot of things going on in the day-to-day operations. You need a really systematic, process-driven way of how to do things. You need a team that feels aligned in their roles and responsibilities.

Nico: 0:37

Let me invite you to sit back, drop your jaw, tongue and shoulders, take a deep breath and, if you wish, close your eyes for a moment and feel the beat within. And feel the beat within.

Nico: 0:48

In a few seconds, you just jumped from your head to your heart and felt the beat within, opening up to receive even more value and fulfillment out of your business and life. And today's episode. I'm your host, nico van de Venne, confidant to successful CEOs, founders and entrepreneurs who are striving to achieve everlasting fulfillment. Before we dive into today's episode, I have a small request Don't forget to put out that five-star review and share this episode with anybody that you know that might be interested or might have any effect from the episode. And, without further ado, let's skip into the episode. Welcome to the Everlasting Fulfillment Podcast, derek.

Derek: 1:25

Thank you, nico, great to be here. I'm excited to chat with you today.

Nico: 1:29

Yeah, me too. Me too, You've got an amazing history. But I always kick off with one question have you ever heard of CO disease or founder syndrome? I have.

Derek: 1:39

I have, and in some case maybe have suffered it, seen, it experienced and, I hope, am living past it.

Nico: 1:48

Yeah, yeah, I hope so as well. Yeah, indeed it's a very harsh disease, isn't it For sure, for sure. What's the experiences that you've had?

Derek: 1:56

I mean, I think for me, working with entrepreneurs and founders and visionaries for the last 17 years, I've seen that you know, they have a big heart, they've got a big passion, a big mission. They want to make an impact through their business, which is which is empowering. And my role has always been to to support them and to create the structure for them to be able to reach that, that growth and that scale. But I've also seen that, before they get to that point where they're trying to do it all on their own and kind of taking on all of the things that an entrepreneur feels like they have to take on when growing and scaling a business, they sometimes reach that. Call it a breaking point, call it a glass ceiling, getting to a level where it's feeling hard, it's almost feeling like is this even worth it? In the beginning, they've started their business again out of passion, out of a mission, and we had to do everything right. We had to do the bookkeeping, we had to do the marketing, we had to do the sales, we had to figure out how to build our own website. And at a certain point, you know, maybe they've realized that the best way to continue to grow is to hire, to bring in some team members and to help in different areas, and that's, you know, really, really important. But in my experience, when you reach to that level of usually around you know half a million or so and you've done a really good job, in order for you to get to that next level you actually have to do less, better and really trust somebody that can come in and essentially run your business with you or, in some cases, run your business for you. Because at that level you've got complexity, you've got a pretty sizable team, you've got a lot of things going on in the day to day operations. You need a really you know systematic, process driven way of how to do things.

Derek: 3:34

You need a team that feels aligned in their you know roles and responsibilities, and that's usually the kind of stuff that entrepreneurs, visionaries, don't get excited about. They don't really get excited about building systems and processes and holding team members accountable. They want to focus on the vision, they want to focus on the bigger future, and so when they realize that perhaps get out of their own way and escape that trap in some way and bring somebody in can help them get that business to the next level, not only do. They feel confident because they've got somebody they can trust to essentially run the day to day. But they get more excited and kind of step back into that you know, purpose and mission and idea generation phase, which is why they got kind of started in the beginning.

Derek: 4:14

So it's been my experience, you know, doing that with. You know with the clients that I've worked with. And you know now, as I'm kind of building my own business and kind of realizing myself, that sometimes I'm in the same shoes but, um, you know, as they say, new level, new devil and uh, you know, onward and upward.

Nico: 4:28

So yeah, absolutely yeah, no, it's. It's a very recognizable story. Um, I'm kind of in the same position right now where I realized that, indeed, you know, you come to a point where, um, you're, you're used to doing everything, especially, you know, client wise and customer wise. You're used to doing everything, especially client-wise, customer-wise. You're focused on what you really want to do and that's, you know, bread and butter and what you really want, then the whole shebang that's next to it.

Nico: 4:55

It's something that's like, really do, I need to do that and I've come to a point to create my own team, and I've hired a lot of virtual assistants to do a lot of the stuff that I used to do. It's always funny because, um, you know, when they start working on your website in WordPress, they still give me access to my website. I'm like you shouldn't do that. Yeah, you should not do that, because I'm gonna mess things up.

Nico: 5:20

I'm gonna go in there and take her with you too much yeah, yeah, yeah, I want that button a little bit higher and stuff like that. And I've really learned to step back and say, okay, you really want me to give me the access because you want to share and you don't want to lose anything or I want to be able to get onto it and you never know what happens with a partnership but I stay away from it and still it's still there and it's the little micro management part of a of an entrepreneur. I think that you know, I've always done it, so it should be done by me exactly that's that's really, you know, that's the real foundation of founder syndrome.

Derek: 5:58

Very clearly, there's nothing wrong with that, right, that's part of the entrepreneurial journey. But as we evolve and as we kind of look at the next level and see, you know, what is it going to take to get to that next level, whether you're just starting out and you want to get to, you know, 10k a month, or you're, you know, at 500K and you want to scale to, you know, to seven figures, figures, there's a lot of things. Here's the trap in some respect is is the awareness, because without the awareness, we're going to keep going into it in the same way that we go into it, which is what got you here, is what is not going to get you there. And so there's a lot that we could do right. We could do the website, we could do the bookkeeping, we could do my customer service and manage my calendar. But the question we should be asking is should you? And when they get clear, when we get clear that there's a difference between what you could do because you could do everything right In the beginning, you did it, but at a certain point it's actually being more discerning with what you could do versus what you should do.

Derek: 6:57

And often I'll do this with our clients and say you know, when we look at that, maybe you should do ask yourself a question Is it nice, necessary or neither? And what I mean by that is that is it necessary, like is it going to be done? It has to get done, only you can do it. It's going to move the bottom line, great. But is it a nice to have, like you could do it, but you don't really have to do it. Maybe we could do that later. We've got bigger, bigger fish to fry. Let's just kind of punt that down the road. We can revisit it later.

Derek: 7:25

And then there's the stuff in the middle which is the neither, it's not necessary, but it's also not nice to have.

Derek: 7:30

And then that's where we look at it and say, well, I could do it, but should I really be doing it? And maybe there's somebody on my team that I can delegate that to or outsource that to, or create a process or a system. So I'm not so heavily involved. You know, maybe I do the first 10%, the team or the system gets it 90%, and then I just review it for the final 10%. So I'm not having to do all of the heavy lifting, I'm just doing the 20% on the front end and the back end, but then the team is doing everything else to kind of move that forward. So it's that awareness and being able to have that time as an entrepreneur to reflect and ask yourself that question, which can be very freeing, because once you get into that mode and you can continue, it's like a muscle continue to build. That it's going to be more empowering and more kind of confidence building as you continue to grow and scale.

Nico: 8:14

Yeah, indeed, and one of the things that I've noticed, right, this podcast is a perfect example of an evolution of a business can go, you know, at a very short term. I launched it by myself and, you know, started looking for people and then I found out there's tools out there that can help you. You know, we met on PopMatch and so we met there. I mean just, you know, you step one step after another and then start doing everything yourself scheduling and sending emails, and you know, the meeting invite with a stream yard link is all of that stuff you do yourself. But actually you're full-time engaged in your project and you're doing that in the evening and it's like, why am I still doing this in the evening? I got a perfectly amount of income and I'm still working in the evening.

Nico: 8:56

So that's where I skipped over to one VA who I actually taught, because she wasn't used to working with all these tools. I actually taught her how to use them and he's like, he's like, oh, this is a student I can provide to other people. Like, yeah, that's the whole thing. You know, you teach people wonderful new things. And then she brought in a couple of things that you know out of her perspective. She said, well, if I would be a guest I would like this, and if I would be a guest, I would like that and like, wow, okay, you know what, here you go. Yeah, have fun, yeah. And then the second step was like, okay, the editing. I was still doing the editing myself. I was like it's fun, you know, you like that, we can twiddle and do stuff and you spend too much time on it. And then I, you know, skipped that over to va as well. I said you know, make something out of it. What do you want? I said make it how you would love to hear this podcast.

Nico: 9:46

And she kind of you know messed everything a little bit together and at some point you come to a position where I'm just doing the interviews I love doing this. We're having a conversation with you going into the depth of this thing that I want to make people aware of, of what exists, and then, after that, it's like, okay, you know, I'll hear when it get launched.

Derek: 10:08

Yeah, it's the uh, it's the ability to see, like, what your, what your zone. We all have our zone of genius, right, and so I know I mean, I've only spent a little bit of time with you. We connected before and obviously we're chatting today and you know, I can sense that your zone of genius is is things like connecting with people and developing relationships and kind of getting to understand, you know, know, working with businesses, like maybe what the block is and how to uncover it, and you don't have to move past that. Others, their zone of genius is like executing a plan and video editing and bookkeeping and building out a website, and so when we all are aware of what's our zone of genius and be able to free ourselves up to spend more time in that zone of genius and create the support whether it's the people or the process so that I can stay more in my zone of genius, usually the zone of genius is where you make the most money and make the most impact, right, and so if you can find ways to get into that, the better. And I'll share one other thing based on what you're describing. I think it's great.

Derek: 11:00

You know people ask me all the time how do I know who I should get help with? Is it a VA? Maybe it's a, an OBM, like an online business manager, or a COO, like we do a chief operating officer? I said the first thing is just understand that most entrepreneurs, a majority of what they do and how they do things, live up here. It's in their head. So part of it is just getting it out of your head. I don't care if it's getting out onto a loom video or a notepad or an Asana task or an email or a Slack message whatever. But first we got to get it out and then, if you're looking to get support, start somewhere. And usually for most, if they're looking to grow in the beginning stages to say, get a VA right, a VA is going to be the person that's there that's just going to get it done. They're going to be that taskmaster, that implementer that can execute basic stuff right. They're not going to be super strategic and be able to develop a one-year seven-figure plan, but they're going to be there to edit the video and schedule on StreamYard and get it posted on Spotify and everything else, and that's that first step, just to get some bandwidth back, get some time back. That's that first step, just to get some bandwidth back. Get some time back.

Derek: 12:04

When you're getting momentum and you feel like you need another level of support and you need somebody that can really kind of project manage and get some plans executed, I always say then step into what I call an online business manager. An online business manager is more strategic. They execute and implement, but they're more than just one task at a time. They're going to think ahead, they're going to be more proactive and they usually focus on three things marketing, operations and project management. And so when you have that support mechanism in place, you feel like you've got really great growth and, again, more bandwidth and more time.

Derek: 12:39

When you're scaling and you're close to seven figures or at seven figures, what you need is a chief operating officer, because they are your partner. I often say they are your trusted second in command, the one that is your strategic thinker, the one that is going to think big with you and not just talk about ideas and then kind of leave the spaghetti on the wall. It's like, okay, great, now I'm going to go make that happen, I'm going to go make that real. Here's the plan I'm going to execute with the OBM and the team and hold everything accountable as that air traffic controller. So it's an evolution. But I always say, if you're just starting out or if you're looking to get some help and you don't know, get a VA. See where your time is being spent the most. If it's in marketing, get a marketing VA. If it's in customer service, get a customer service VA.

Nico: 13:19

They're all available, they're very affordable and I'm sure, as you know, they're very affordable and I'm sure, as you know what you pay and what you get, my VA is like 50 or 60 euros. This is like 60 euros. I'm still having the income and it's a deductible cost, so it's like it's a system that works for itself, that is implemented. There's a lot of entrepreneurs that I've noticed, you know for especially starting uh, solopreneurs who look at the money specifically that they send out. You know it touches their cashflow and that's it's.

Nico: 14:15

It's so strange because if you're you've got the entrepreneur mindset, you know that investing money brings you X amount more back. Investing money brings you X amount more back, but you have to first a lot of them have to experience that best moment that comes back at some point. Where, for instance, I started off with a VA, to just look at all my invoicing, you know I'm I'm I'm a chaotic person really Some people don't but I love the fact that I'm chaotic because I am chaotic and I can bring structure in companies. I cannot do that for myself. I'm just too busy with all the other stuff. I don't like doing it.

Nico: 14:52

So I asked her you know, check my invoice what's wrong? And she actually she got herself paid back in, I think two months. Yeah, so the amount of that time that I spent with customers instead of with my billing yeah, so the amount of that time that I spent with customers instead of with my billing yeah, it brought me a lot of a lot of joy on one side and a financial that's the thing and oftentimes the financial ROI.

Derek: 15:15

We like that. It's tangible, it's real, I can see it. I paid, you know, five hours a week at 50 euros an hour. So I'm paying 250 euros to get five hours back, which I can then implement and make you know 10 times more. Right, so that's real. That's the tangible piece that motivates us to say let's get another VA or let's hire an OBM or, you know, take it to the next level.

Derek: 15:37

But also there's the energetic component, because when you are freed up, when we are freed up from not having to do that task, not only does it take our time but it drains our energy because of, like gosh I mean I'm asking because I'm just guessing that on a Monday morning at nine o'clock, if you have to spend the first two hours doing invoicing versus doing podcasting, on an energy level scale of one to 10, where's your energy when you're doing invoicing versus where your energy right and energy is everything, because that's how you show up, it builds your confidence, builds your motivation and I love what you shared about that kind of aspect of how you know for entrepreneurs like you said, chaotic, and I say oftentimes, working with entrepreneurs, you know they're big thinkers, they're visionaries, they're big risk takers, and so that's amazing. We want them to be kind of looking at the bigger future, but also, in some extent, that's amazing. We want them to be kind of looking at the bigger future, but also, in some extent, they're the kite that needs the string, because without the string, the kite can just kind of float around and that's up here. But we need that grounding element. And I can't take credit for this expression because I work with my wife and she's an entrepreneur as well, and we've been working together for 17 years, and what she would describe this is that we need structure for our nature.

Derek: 16:46

Our nature as entrepreneurs is that we like to start things but not necessarily finish things. We've got lots of balls in the air and we need somebody to create that loving support mechanism and that container of accountability. Not, you know, get it done. It's got to be done by the deadline but like let's, let's, how can I help finish this for you? How can I help land the plane? What does it look like in a finished state and how can I help make that happen for you? Getting that type of support is incredible, and I'll just echo the last thing I'll say, cause you're saying the same things that I really appreciate.

Derek: 17:15

Um around investment in team whether it's a VA or a COO, it doesn't matter who. It is the biggest entrepreneurial mindset shift that most solopreneurs need to make in the beginning. Because, for those that are already at a certain level, they've crossed this barrier investment of what it's going to provide back to you monetarily as well as energetically. Everything changes. Because at that point you're going to say, like you know, I got to spend 50 bucks an hour to get a VA that's going to free up my time five hours a week. Like, yeah, and that's a money-making game, because the more that you can get that time back, the more that you can get that time back, the more that you can make, and that's how you scale, that's how you grow. So I love that you echo that as well. Yeah.

Nico: 18:09

Yeah, absolutely, it's called ROI, but also FOI Fund on Investment.

Derek: 18:15

Yeah, I love that, I love that, yeah, that's fantastic.

Nico: 18:19

That's fantastic. Yeah, it's all about the numbers and that's something as well. That comes down to entrepreneurship and everything that you do in business is know your numbers. But numbers is not only the financial part, it's also the energy part. Like you mentioned, there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there that I've noticed in my contacts as well who feel isolated, so who are I'm jumping really into another subject here, but but it's also related. You know, once you are entrepreneur, you're a solopreneur and you engage somebody who is doing stuff for you, you got, you know, you've got a little talk person again to bounce off some ideas. They might not be completely into the ideas, but that's. That's something as well that I've noticed in founder syndrome is a lot of people you know they tend to stay isolated in their little area because this is, you know, somebody else might take away stuff and this and that. So what's your experience in that, in seeing that happen?

Derek: 19:14

Yeah, I mean, I've been seeing it for, you know, 17 years working with entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurship is a very lonely journey, right, journey Right and and also, in some respect uh, again, this is not my expression, but I love it because, um, it really resonates with the fastest path to personal growth and development is entrepreneurship, because it brings up all your, all your SHIT, right. It brings up all this stuff, right, I can't charge this. Who's going to pay for that? Who's going to buy that? Who am I?

Derek: 19:43

All your beliefs, all your image, all your, all your, all your, you know, self-talk is coming up left, right and center and everything that you're doing, um, including maybe your friends and family. Who are you like? Why are you out there? Why don't you just get a job? You know it's very risky and everything else, cause you're putting yourself out there in a very big way, um, and oftentimes, in the very beginning, we're by ourselves, we're behind our computer, right, we're doing things in a passive way. We're doing things online. I mean, of course, we can still go to events and network and everything else, but I think, if you look back the last couple of years with you know, covid and everything else, people hunkered down even more. We had to, and now maybe things are shifting in some respect where we're kind of getting back to you know, people want to connect and kind of be in person and have that sort of you know access if you will. But when you have a team member, again it can be a VA, it could be a full bred team. It's having that accountability and being able to have somebody that holds you accountable and having that person that you can lean on, somebody that you can, you know, count on, somebody that you can give something to and say can you, can you help me, do this for me? And and and usually if they're the right person in the right seat and I have the right skillset and responsibility, they'll kind of help and make that move that forward. But yeah, I mean, this is, this is the rub.

Derek: 21:00

I'm glad that you asked that question because you know we work virtually with all of our clients across the globe and we use a lot of tools. We use project management tools, we use Slack, we use, obviously, zoom, loom videos, et cetera, and we provide that because we can provide the service and do that asynchronously where we've got. You know, I live in Paris, france. I have clients that live in California that's a nine hour difference. I can't be there in person, I can't be on Zoom with them at the same time all the time, because you know that's a nine hour difference.

Derek: 21:30

So we can do a lot and move the needle and get traction and momentum, even though we're not, you know, in person.

Derek: 21:37

But being able to have that kind of communication and that collaboration aspect, leveraging the tools that we've got available today, it's really empowering because you can get a lot of momentum and you can get a lot of results and you can still have a time for connection and collaboration and kind of, you know, really seeing how we're doing and I do this with my team all the time, where you know there are moments where we're working on what we need to be doing and we're, you know, moving the needle forward with our clients, and then, once a month, we just get together as a team virtually, because my team is mostly based in the US and we just connect like how are you doing, what's good, what's going on, how can I help?

Derek: 22:15

Just generally, just kind of connecting in, not so much on the work that they're doing but just how they're feeling about it, and that's just a value of mine to, you know, to kind of bring that to the workplace. But yeah, when you're, when you're starting out, it can be lonely. So, whether you're getting a team member or, you know, having a coach or joining a, you know, a mastermind or being a programmer, some sort of community aspect that can help you, you know, raise your game is really really important.

Nico: 22:38

Yeah, yeah, absolutely Absolutely. And I think one of the one of the biggest hurdles there is, you know, the operational side of a business is pretty easy to talk about, and sometimes a little bit of the personal level with your team, and I also noticed in the past that at some point there is a sort of a wall that is created of things that you don't say to other people. As an entrepreneur, like you mentioned family friends, um, I've I've learned very clearly, let me be very clear on this do not talk to your parents about your business, or did not talk about you know the details or anything, because it's not that they don't want to hear it, it's just they don't understand, they haven't unless your parents have been entrepreneurs or and have also done all steps and you know, like you said, personal development, wow, this is like high speed TGV yeah, jump on tallies, you know, fly through the ocean and get an evolution of yourself really quickly.

Nico: 23:39

But what I've noticed is that sometimes entrepreneurs need one person that they can really confidence in and and I've also noticed that that's not usually the partner, you know, the person that they live with- A lot of a lot of entrepreneurs find that their, their partner, is somebody who's employed, comes home and says you know, my job is done and I'm going to cook and enjoy the time with the kids. It's so true. Entrepreneurs do not do that. We cook, we enjoy our kids, but we do it at our own time.

Derek: 24:06

Yeah, it's so true. I mean I, I, you know, I didn't, I didn't start out in entrepreneurship. I, you know I started out in corporate. So I was that person that had that you know kind of employee job and I would finish at the end of the day and and you know, my wife was, you know she's she's a business coach and she was growing her business at the time and you know, we had small children and I would come home and I'm like you know, work is done I don't want to talk about anybody's work, let alone yours. And when you're an entrepreneur, you're like I just closed a 5K client, like let's celebrate.

Derek: 24:34

I'm like I don't want to, you know. And so it brings it's front and passionate and have a mission about their corporate kind of employee mode. But then when I got into working together, I worked with my wife for we still work together, but the last 15 years I was the COO of her coaching business. We've scaled it for 17 years and multiple seven figures. But I could see through her and through those clients, especially with the partnership. Oftentimes in our world our clients are mostly women and it was the husband that was.

Derek: 25:15

You know, why do you have to invest in this coaching program and why do you have to do this entrepreneur thing?

Derek: 25:19

Why can't you just go get a real job and that can be really deflating, right when you don't have that loving support circle to kind of celebrate and say I just closed a new client, or I just did this amazing launch, or I launched my book, or I launched my podcast.

Derek: 25:33

You want somebody to be like, oh my gosh, that's amazing, congratulations, because that fuels your confidence to go do even more. So you got to find that somewhere and if it's not at home, there's a way to incorporate that in some way with your partner, not make it feel like it's always in their face all the time. But there's always a way of I remember I would say, you know, she would ask me like how was your day, and I would go kind of surface level and I would ask her how was your day? And she'd kind of go surface level. And then after a while we realized let's obviously share a bit more because that's a value for us. But having somebody or some mechanism or a group to be able to, to have that around you is, is really, really important.

Nico: 26:08

Yeah, yeah. So, derek, what's, what's the message that you want to, you know, put out there to, to the listeners.

Derek: 26:18

I would say, if you're listening from our conversation today and we touched on a lot of different, a lot of different things that you know, I think this kind of idea of the entrepreneurial trap or kind of the founders you know, block, if you will. First of all, there's nothing wrong with feeling that we've all gone through it. We've all been there in one way or another and it's never, I have to say it's not like utopia, it's not like you cross it and then you're never going to cross it again. There's new level, new devil. But if you're feeling like there's a bit of struggle in some respect in your business, and that's totally understandable and it's totally real, everybody experiences it. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it. So there's going to be a point where it feels hard or challenging or I'm a bit like pushing the boulder up the hill. Is there another way? And you want to kind of go into a more fluid, you know, seamless direction, get some, get some support.

Derek: 27:11

There's nothing wrong in asking for help and I think, knowing that, if you look at every successful entrepreneur, small business, as they've grown in scale, the one element that is always a common denominator is team. It's having somebody beyond the one person. You could do it all on your own, but it's going to feel like hard work and it's going to take more time. But I always say, if you want things to be done more efficiently meaning more quickly and more effectively, which means at a higher result or a higher level get some support. Get somebody on your team. Start with the VA, get an OBM If you're at seven figures, get a COO, get somebody to do your social media, get somebody just to free up your time and get that ROI back, as you mentioned. But I think also that I love that, that FOI, the fun what was it fun of investment yeah, I mean, I think it's both and realizing that that's part of the secret to growing and scaling your business. It's a big component, you know that's. I think that's a big takeaway for our listeners today.

Nico: 28:09

It's a wonderful one. Yeah, absolutely. And, derek, you know you've talked about a little bit, you know touched a little bit on the name of your company and what you're, what you're doing, but how can people find you? And what are the things that you know really are are out there, that you're different than than all the others in your, in your environment?

Derek: 28:35

Sure, yeah, uh. So I own a company called the COO solution uh, thecoosolutioncom. We offer fractional COOs so, chief operating officer, call it a second in command services for entrepreneurs that are looking to grow and scale. We also offer online business manager services and support. So if you're at that, you know low six figures and you need focus on marketing operations and project management. We offer that as well.

Derek: 28:52

But I would say what differentiates us in the marketplace and this is from my experience, having done this for 17 years, and one of my personal values is I do things based on trust. I do things when I work with a client, when we work with a client, with our team, our process and how we do things. It's all based on the value of trust, because that's always been a fundamental element of what I do. Especially at this level, when you're working with a visionary and entrepreneur, they need somebody they can trust. That's why I often say you have a trusted second in command that is your boots on the ground, obm COO, making stuff happen. But it's based on the element of trust. And, yeah, so you can find out more at the COosolutioncom and see if it's something that might be interested. We have a quiz there that you can take to see if you're, you know, maybe looking for a certain level of support and just find out where you are and where you need to be and, yeah, happy to help.

Nico: 29:41

Great. So I would say listeners, you know, check it out, check it out. It sounds like a very good place to start when you're at a certain you know, like you said, glass ceiling story to to break through sometimes and then hang into that next level. So, derek, thank you very much for your time. Um, the sun is out so let's enjoy it. You know we had some gray areas. This is gray gray skies, gray areas.

Derek: 30:08

Yeah, it's lately. Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy the brightness while it lasts.

Nico: 30:12

Absolutely, and thanks again while it lasts. Absolutely, and thanks again for your time, derek. Thanks so much, nico, happy to be here, and to the listeners, thanks again for following the podcast. And hey, don't forget, remember, put that five-star review out there and share this episode with somebody who might find this interesting. Have a good one, everybody. Bye-bye.